An Interview with J49’s Simon Thomas

We recently visited J49’s Deptford Hub development in Lewisham to catch up with CEO Simon Thomas. 

With Spaciable Living now in full swing on the development, our founder, David Graydon, discussed the key challenges facing today’s social providers and how the Spaciable Living app is helping J49 to address those issues.

David Graydon (Spaciable): Here we are with Simon, the CEO and we're complete.

Simon Thomas (J49): We're complete.  I think we're just about there.  The Bear is here.  Bear House.  

DG: It's looking really good.  Simon, tell me, how did you come to be here and what's your background as far as social housing goes?

ST:  So, social housing I've been in for about 25 years, mainly out of a desire to transform the spaces that people find themselves in.  Really pressurised situations and accommodations.  

So, back in the 90s we did some stuff which involved people building their own houses out of disempowered situations.  So, this is all about re-empowering people's lives.  That's what social housing should be.  Social housing generally in this country is about people getting more disempowered.  We're trying to switch it around and re-empower their lives.  

So, they've got long-term tenancies, they've got long-term opportunities, and they can really find a good way to do it.  It's renting rather than owning but that's OK.

DG: We were having a quick chat to one of the tenants and it was quite amazing, talking about security issues and fundamental things that we regard as normal.

ST: But a lot of that is about the community aspect; trusting their neighbours and areas like that.  And that's one of the things that we're trying to do in J49, to build into it, which is why the app is so key.  

How do we build community?  Community in the urban space is absolutely vital if we're going to change the way that people think about the homes they live in, the spaces they are in, and even the kind of jobs they inhabit.  

So, community is part of our plan.  It’s a process to get people on board.  As we use the app to get people on board, we're trying to create a community of communication rather than a community of suspicion.  And that's one of the things about people's background here.  They're suspicious about people around them; suspicious about their neighbours.  They've probably had some very insecure places to live in.  We've got to break those barriers down and try and reintegrate them again.  

DG: I think that you also mentioned you’re getting people digitally interacting.

ST: Yes, before they physically start interacting, they can interact with the app.  And I think that's key.

DG: To build that trust?

ST: I think one of the things that is really interesting is that one of the residents has already said, in fact a couple of residents have said, ‘I've got my own app.  This feels the most empowered thing in my life.’  

Getting them from that place of empowerment to then communicating with the community is where we're going to have to help and work with people, give them opportunities and start getting them to use it.  Because I think it will revolutionise some of the things they're doing.

DG: That's an amazing start to a really good journey.  In your huge amount of social housing experience and knowledge, what have you found to be the key issues?  How is J49 different and how are you approaching that?  What's your vision for where it's going?

ST: I think our number one vision is community rather than isolation.  The city's all about isolation, separation, disconnection from our ability to run our own lives, to operate freely, openly and securely.  That's one of the key aspects.  It's a social transformation.  It's not straightforward, it's not easy.  Sometimes it's to do with sociology, background, place, country.

One of the greatest things about the UK is that it's a completely multicultural society.  That should be the most fantastic thing on Earth.  But what it's caused over the last 15 to 20 years is a disconnection between those things.  So, reintegrating is really important. 

It needs to be digital. It needs to be face-to-face.  It needs to be a different culture that we're trying to create.  That's what J49's about.  Creative community living.  Creative isn’t the creativity of J49, it's the creativity of the individuals.

DG: We're going to chart this journey as we move along and it will be great to see how we can empower people with that creativity and with that trust through interaction.  We've talked about the notifications, the frequently asked questions, and making them feel empowered digitally and physically.  And then build the community from there.

ST: But there's one other thing that's really important.  In the community conversation we had about getting people on board, when we interviewed them we asked them one question.  We said, ‘What do you think you could add to this community?’  Which was a shocking question.  Straightforward to you and me.  A simple thing.  What do you do?   What can you add?  What're your gifts?

If you've been disempowered for so long, you don't think in that way.  So, in doing it, there's a kind of deep searching.  And then we said, ‘So how can we add that?’

And arts came out, music came out, food came out, I do quite a lot of DIY.  And we said, ‘Well, how would that work out in the community?’  So, going back to the digital versus human, there's a side where we need to interact that kind of information to get people thinking, looking up groups, making connections, starting chats.  It's all got to be part of the future.

DG: It was good to see that Chats are starting to form [in the app].  And I like the idea that we could send out some surveys and ask, ‘What can you do for this community and how could it work?  What sort of events can we run through the calendar?’ and other areas like that.  So, we're looking forward to seeing how this develops.